Interview Of President Trump And Elon Musk By Sean Hannity, “The Sean Hannity Show”

Roosevelt Room

11:48 A.M. EST

Q: The Twitter files — how they targeted him; how Twitter, at the time, worked closely with the FBI, the CIA; and, even before the release of Hunter’s very real laptop, they were feeding them disinformation. That —

MR. MUSK: Absolutely.

Q: — you found all that out.

MR. MUSK: Well, I think —

Q: That’s called transparency, right?

THE PRESIDENT: The FBI has to be rehabbed. The FBI —

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: What’s happened with the FBI and the DOJ is just — their — their stock has gone way down. I mean, their reputation is shot.

Q: And intelligence.

THE PRESIDENT: And I think Pam is going to do great. I think Kash is going to do great. I think they have to do great or we have a problem.

But when you look at what they did, the raid of Mar-a-Lago — the raid of Mar-a-Lago — you look at what they did, their reputation is shot.

Q: It is. What — you were going to say, Elon?

MR. MUSK: Well, no, I was going to say that I think probably a — like, a lot of people still —

Q: How — how did you find (inaudible)?

MR. MUSK: — still believe, like, the Russia hoax, even though you’ve done a lot to combat that. The — you know, the — the Steele dossier was an incre- — a massive scam that was concocted by Hillary Clinton and her — her campaign.

Q: She bought and paid it — for it —

MR. MUSK: Right.

Q: — Russian disinformation.

MR. MUSK: There was — it was — the — people still think the — the Russia hoax is real. Like a lot of people s- — because they never — they never heard the counterpoint. I mean — I mean, a bunch of people should be in prison for that. That was a — that was outrageous election interference, creating a fake Russia hoax.

Q: How much — if you had to put a number on it, how much do you think you’ve identified waste, fraud, abuse, corruption at this point? And again, we’ve been — we’re going to be scrolling this throughout the program.

MR. MUSK: Well, the — the overall goal is to try to get a trillion dollars out of the deficit. And if we — if we — if the deficit is not brought under control, America will go bankrupt. This is a very important thing for people to understand. A country is no different from an individual, in that if an individual overspends, an individual can go bankrupt, and so can a country.

And — and the out- — the massive waste, fraud, and abuse that has been going on, which is leading to a $2-trillion-a-year deficit, that — that’s what the president was handed on Jan. 20th, a $2 trillion deficit. It’s insane.

Q: For this fiscal year?

THE PRESIDENT: Two trill- — yeah. We inherited it.

MR. MUSK: Two —

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. And inflation is back. I’m only here for two and a half weeks.

Q: That was January —

THE PRESIDENT: Inflating is back —

Q: — you were there for a week.

THE PRESIDENT: No, think of it, inflation is back. And they said, “Oh, Trump infla-” — I had nothing to do with it. These people have — have run the country. They spent money like nobody has ever spent. They were — they were given $9 trillion to throw out the window — $9 trillion, and they spent it on the Green New Scam, I call it. It’s the greatest scam in the history of the country. One of them. We have a lot of them, I guess. But one of them.

Q: Well —

THE PRESIDENT: Dollar-wise, probably —

Q: — and DEI —

THE PRESIDENT: — it is.

Q: — and wokeism —

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, yeah.

Q: — and transgenderism —

THE PRESIDENT: Well, that’s all part of it. Yeah.

Q: — and LGBTQ+.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

Q: And, by the way, not in America — other countries, not here.

THE PRESIDENT: You know, the amazing thing is when you see, like, the teaching of DEI: $9 million. How do you spend $9 million to teach no matter what it is?

MR. MUSK: Right.

THE PRESIDENT: You could teach physics.

MR. MUSK: Exactly. Totally.

THE PRESIDENT: You could go to MIT for a lot less.

MR. MUSK: It’s (inaudible) expensive. (Laughs.) Expensive.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, the teaching —

MR. MUSK: Expensive BS.

THE PRESIDENT: — of DEI.

Q: Well, I think it would be better spent on —

THE PRESIDENT: No, it’s a kickback. It’s got to be a kickback. Nobody is that — nobody could do that. Nobody is —

Q: Well, it —

THE PRESIDENT: Nobody is giving — to assess the dialog of an audience coming out of a theater: $4 million.

Q: How much do you believe, Elon, you’ve identified in — in waste, fraud, abuse, corruption now? And how much —

MR. MUSK: Well —

Q: — do you anticipate you will?

MR. MUSK: Sure. Well, the — I — I think —

THE PRESIDENT: One percent.

MR. MUSK: (Laughs.)

THE PRESIDENT: No, because it’s so massive. It’s — this is —

MR. MUSK: Yeah, exactly.

THE PRESIDENT: — huge money. Huge money. Look —

Q: So, what we’ve found now is one percent?

MR. MUSK: Well, we’ve j- — we’ve just gotten started here.

THE PRESIDENT: As good as they are, they’re not going to find some contract that was crooked — you know, crooked as hell. And, I mean, there’s going to be so much that isn’t found. But what is found — I think he’s going to find a trillion dollars.

MR. MUSK: Yeah, I think so.

THE PRESIDENT: But I think it’s a very small percentage compared to what it is. I mean, he could tell you about treasuries; he could tell you about a woman that worked for Biden that became a very wealthy woman while she was working for him. Right?

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: Yeah, I know who you’re talking about.

MR. MUSK: I mean, there are some strange situations where people — where, you know, someone’s working for the government earning $200,000 a year, and then, suddenly, they’re worth tens of millions of dollars within a few years. Where’d the money come?

Q: How’d they earn it?

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: They have a private company on the side?

MR. MUSK: We’re just curious. Like, can you —

THE PRESIDENT: While they were working.

MR. MUSK: Can you show us — because, like, in order to be worth tens of millions of dollars, you’d have to start a company, or you’ve got to get some kind — the compensation has got to come from somewhere. So, how does a civil servant with — earning $200,000 a year suddenly, within a span of a few years, be worth tens of millions dollars?

Q: W- —

MR. MUSK: So, I just want to connect the dots here.

Q: All right, s- —

MR. MUSK: Maybe there’s a legitimate explanation, but I don’t think so. (Laughter.)

Q: So, you know, and this gets to kind of the heart of where I am. I — I looked at your work, and I look at this amount of money, and I get angry. And I don’t get v- — I’m not an angry person.

MR. MUSK: Sure.

Q: I don’t get angry. I get a- — I get annoyed sometimes, but I don’t get angry.

And I did live paycheck to bay- — paycheck a part of my life. And I think of, you know, the working men and women in this country that the — 56 percent of which cannot afford a $1,000 emergency after four years of Harris and Biden.

MR. MUSK: Sure.

Q: Okay? That is serious, you know, financial trouble. Or they’re putting bare necessities on credit cards. And I’m looking at this and I’m thinking, well, how much — when we — when all is said and done, we could have written a check or cut the taxes or fixed our schools —

MR. MUSK: Yes. Yes.

Q: — or deported these illegals that we keep finding, known terrorists, cartel members, gang members.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: And — and we’re not doing it.

THE PRESIDENT: Sean, the saddest thing is they don’t talk about the individual lines. I could go on your show right now, I could get a list that I have on the beautiful Resolute Desk in the Oval Office, and it’s got 40 points, and all they are is the heading of what this money is. You don’t have to go deep into it, and you see it’s, you know, all different things and it’s so ridiculous.

I mean, normally, when you look for fraud, you’re looking for one thing out of a hundred. Here, out of a hundred, 95 are going to be bad. I mean, they’re — and they’re so obvious just by the heading. But they never mention that. They only mention, “This is a violation of our Constitution. This is a” — the word they give, you know, it’s like a sound bite — “constitutional crisis.” It’s a new thing, “constitution-” — But they never mention about where the money is going.

MR. MUSK: Yes. Exactly.

THE PRESIDENT: And when people hear that — I had a very smart man, John Kennedy — he’s actually a very smart man. He said, “Sir, you should just go on television and just read the name of the topic that you’re giving all the money — just the topic that you’re giving this money to, and don’t say anything more,” and he’s right.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: And I’ll do it at some point, you know, when —

But they never talk about where the money is going. They just talk about, “It’s a constitutional crisis.” It’s so sad. And honestly, I think they’re bad people. I used to give them the benefit of the doubt, but you almost think they hate the country. I think they hate the country. They’re sick people.

Q: Remember, what they can’t — what they couldn’t accomplish at the ballot box, what they can’t accomplish legislatively, now they’re using the courts.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

Q: And they c- — they’re trying to bury you in lawsuits.

THE PRESIDENT: That’s right. You know the good news, though? They’ve lost their confidence. They’re not the same people.

Q: I think you’re right.

THE PRESIDENT: They’re — they’re not the same people.

This election was brutal for them. We won every swing state. We won by millions and millions of votes. We won everything. We — all 50 states went up — all 50. It’s never happened.

Q: Popular vote.

THE PRESIDENT: Every one. All 50 states went up.

They’ve lost their confidence. I see it. And they’re — they’re just swirling and twirling. They don’t know what the hell is happening. They’re much different. They’re just as mean, but they’re not getting to the point.

Q: Why do you invite them into the Oval Office nearly every day?

MR. MUSK: (Laughs.)

THE PRESIDENT: Well, the media — you’re talking about the media.

Q: Yeah, your friends in the media.

THE PRESIDENT: The media — no, they’re — you know, the anger that — they ask questions so angry — a question — a normal question. I give them an answer. They — but they — I say, “Why are you so angry when you ask a question?” Just a standard question. And, I don’t know, there’s something —

Q: They haven’t had a- — they haven’t been allowed in that office for the last four years, and here you’re giving them access.

Let me go to an area that I think is key, and — and you talked about this in recent interviews, and that is: We don’t need a Department of Education. Okay. And what some people are trying to do is stoke fears that, “Oh, my gosh, my kid is not going to get the money for education.”

THE PRESIDENT: (Laughs.) Yeah.

Q: Or “grandma’s Social Security and Medicare.” This was a big promise of yours on the campaign trail.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. Yeah.

Q: So, I really want to give you both an opportunity to assure the American people you will keep — that money will be allocated for students, but with higher standards. For example, I would assume associated with monies given or vouchers.

THE PRESIDENT: (Inaudible) so much and — and then Elon goes. But, look, Social Security won’t be touched —

Q: Won’t be touched.

THE PRESIDENT: — other than if there’s fraud or something — we’re going to find it; it’s going to be strengthened — but won’t be touched. Medicare, Medicaid, none of that stuff is going to be touched. It’s just —

Q: Nothing. I want you to —

THE PRESIDENT: (Inaudible) don’t have to.

Now, if there are illegal migrants in the system, we’re going to get them out of the system, and all of that fraud.

But it’s not going to be touched.

School — I want to bring school back to the states, so that Iowa, Indiana — all these places — Idaho, New Hampshire — there’s so many places, the states. I figure 35 really run well.

And right now, it’s Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Finland, China — China, can you imagine? — has top — top schools. We’re last.

So, they have a list of 40 countries. We’re number 40. Usually we’re 38, 39, but last time, we were number 40. And what I say is you’ve got to give it back.

So, it doesn’t work.

I’ll tell you what we’re number one in: cost per pupil. We spend more money than any other country by far — it’s not even close — per pupil. Okay? So, we know it doesn’t work.

So, we spend the most and we have the worst — right? — the worst result. When we give that — when we give that back to Indiana, when we give that b- — back to Iowa and back to a lot of the states that run well — they run well, a lot of them — 35, 37, 38 — now, you’re going to have 10 laggards, but you’re going to have 5 real laggards, but that’s going to be okay.

Take New York — you give it to Westchester County, you give it to Suffolk County, you give it to Upstate New York, and you give it to Manhattan — but you give it to four or five subsections. Same thing in California. Los Angeles is going to be a problem, but you’re going to give it to places that run well. We can change education

Now, school choice is important, but that will get care — taken care of automatically.

We want to bring education back to the states. You will spend half the number. And I’m not even doing this —

Q: So, you’re leaning more towards grants not vouchers, like to parents?

THE PRESIDENT: I’m not even — I’m not even doing this to save, but you will save. It will cost you much less money. You get a much better education.

If you go to some of these states, you’ll be the equivalent of Norway, Sweden, Denmark — places that really have a good school system. You’ll have — those places will be the equivalent, and your overall numbers will get so much better.

Q: Do you want standards associated with the money?

THE PRESIDENT: The only thing I want to do from — from Washington, D.C., is make sure they’re teaching English, reading, writing —

Q: Math and science.

THE PRESIDENT: — and arithmetic. Okay?

Q: Science? Science might help.

THE PRESIDENT: Okay. A little science. You know —

Q: Computers.

THE PRESIDENT: — you’re not going to have much of a problem with that, but that’s it. Do you know, we have half the buildings — I mean, you look at Department of Education —

MR. MUSK: It’s empty.

THE PRESIDENT: Look at the real estate and the —

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: — the level. For what? To — to — I mean, for — what do they do? We have really bad educa- — the teachers — I love teachers. I respect teachers. And, by the way, there’s no reason why teachers can’t form a union. They can do whatever they want to do, if it’s back in the states. So, we’re not looking to hurt the teacher — I’m — I’m going to help the teachers. I think the teachers should be incentivized, because a good teacher is like a good scientist, is like a great doctor.

MR. MUSK: Sure.

THE PRESIDENT: It’s a valuable commodity.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: I think they should be incentivized.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: So, I’m totally for the teachers.

MR. MUSK: Absolutely.

Q: I interview a guy a lot on radio. He’s from Wichita, Kansas. And he started —

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q: — as a medical doctor. Started Atlas.MD, and he’s now — he’s rolled it out nationwide. Concierge care, $50 a month, 24-hour access to a doctor.

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q: You know, they use a lot of telemedicine now as part of it — very innovative. He negotiates directly with pharmaceutical companies. People — if they have high blood pressure, they walk out with their medicine. They have high cholesterol, they walk out with their medicine. And they pay pennies on the dollar. You mentioned —

THE PRESIDENT: By the way, forms of that could be done.

Q: Forms of that?

THE PRESIDENT: Forms of that could be done.

Q: Innovation.

THE PRESIDENT: We got hurt when we didn’t get the vote on Obamacare. I made Obamacare — I had a choice: I could let it rot and win a point, or I could do the best you could do with it. And that’s what I did. We did a great job with it, and we made it sort of work, but it’s lousy. We could do so much better. And when you say — you go to certain areas, they — they have doctors round the clock. They have great medical care for a fraction of what we’re paying right now.

There are things we could do. But, look, just overall, this man has been so valuable. I hate to see the way they go after him. They go after him. It’s so unfair. He doesn’t need this. He wants to do this. First of all, this is bigger than anything he’s ever done. He’s done great companies and all, but this is much — you know, this is trillion — everything’s trillions, right?

MR. MUSK: Yeah. The numbers are crazy.

Q: To go back to my original point —

THE PRESIDENT: He can save —

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: But let me — give him his $10 million back.

MR. MUSK: Well — well — I — no. So, people ask me, like, “What’s — what’s the — what’s the — what’s, like, the — what’s your biggest surprise in — in D.C.?” And I’m like, “The sheer scale.”

Q: It’s massive. So, you love the challenge?

MR. MUSK: Well, I mean, to —

THE PRESIDENT: He’ll never do anything bigger.

MR. MUSK: To the president’s point —

THE PRESIDENT: That’s the only thing you can say, “He’ll never do anything” —

MR. MUSK: But, I mean, you do something slightly better, and you save billions of dollars for the American taxpayer — just slightly better. Slightly. (Laughs.)

Q: When you say “tech support” —

MR. MUSK: You go one percent better, and it’s, like, you know, tens of billions of dollars saved to the American taxpayer.

Now, if I may address the point that you — the question you asked earlier, which is, you know, how do we assure people that —

Q: They want to know.

MR. MUSK: Yeah, how do we assure people that we’re going to do the right thing, that their — that their Social Security benefits will be there, that their — the medical care will be good and s- — and — in fact, how do we make it — ensure that there’s better medical care in the future? How do we improve their benefits? How do we make sure that their Social Security check goes further than it did in the past and not — it doesn’t get weakened by inflation?

So, the — if we — if we address the — the massive deficit spending, the sort of — the — the waste in the government, then — then we can actually address inflation.

So, provided the economy grows faster than the money supply, which means you stop the government overspending and the waste, and the output of real useful goods and services exceeds the increase in the money supply, you have no inflation.

Q: Yeah.

MR. MUSK: And — and you also drop the — the interest payments that people pay, because if the government keeps —

Q: Way too high.

MR. MUSK: Yes. The — the reason the interest payments are so high is because the — the national debt keeps increasing. So, the — the government is competing for — to sell debt with — for — with — with the private citizens.

This drives up the interest rate.

So, if you have a — if you have a — if you cut back on the deficit, you actually have an amazing situation for people, because you get r- — you get rid of inflation and you drop the interest rates. And that means people’s mortgage payments go down, their credit card payments go down, their car payments go down, their student loans go down. Everything — their — their life becomes more affordable and they’re standard of living improves.

Q: How quickly? Because I think people are suffering now. We’re still living under the Biden-Harris economy.

THE PRESIDENT: But, Sean, you have states right now —

Q: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: You have some states that operate that way. They operate as well as any corporation. They really operate well.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: Florida.

THE PRESIDENT: They have surpluses. They ha- — they don’t —

MR. MUSK: Texas is — has a surplus, for example.

Q: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: When they — when they look at New York and — and California and some of these places that should have an advantage — I mean, there’s a big advantage — or Pritzker does such a bad job in Illinois; it’s horrible how bad he is — and they don’t have that advantage.

You know, New York has stock exchange and a lot of things. And California has the weather and the beautiful water and all the thing- —

MR. MUSK: California has — has great weather. The most expensive weather on Earth.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah. (Laughter.) But — but —

Q: I like Florida.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: But some states operate the way he’s talking about.

Q: Efficiently.

THE PRESIDENT: When you go into some of these states, you’re going to find very little. You’re going to find almost nothing. They really operate well — big surpluses, low taxes. And —

Q: You know, my taxes went up the first time you were president, because you took away the SALT deduction —

THE PRESIDENT: I — well, I did.

Q: — which, by the way, I thought was the right decision.

THE PRESIDENT: It was the right decision — in fact, Reagan tried to do it — because it rewards badly run states.

But at the same time, it’s a tough — it was — it’s tough for the states. I mean, it really is tough for the states.

The sad part is it rewards really badly run states.

Q: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: And Reagan tried to do it. He was unable to do it. I got it done.

Q: You got it done, and —

THE PRESIDENT: And now we’re going to give some back.

Q: A little bit.

THE PRESIDENT: Because you know what? We’ve got to help them.

Q: It’s only a little.

THE PRESIDENT: We’ve got to help.

Q: Because otherwi- — we’re encouraging people to elect high taxes, spen- —

THE PRESIDENT: Nobody had any idea it would be that devastating. I did the right thing. I got something that Reagan couldn’t do. I got it done, where everybody is — are the same. But you know what? We’ve got to help them out.

Q: Reagan had the Grace Commission, some of the best business minds in the country.

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

Q: And they came up with recommendations. Congress adopted none of them, and none of them were implemented. I’ve got to ask this question, because the media is obsessed about it: What — what if there is a conflict? In other words, because you do business — it was funny, when it came out the other day, that there was going to be, I think, $400 million — billio- — I don’t know if it was millions or billions — a lot of money on Teslas that Joe Biden’s administration w- — did with Tesla, and —

MR. MUSK: I’m not familiar with that.

Q: You’re not even familiar with it? But —

MR. MUSK: I — I don’t think — are you talking about, like, the Inflation Reduction Act stuff or —

Q: It was some — it was a purchase order of Tesla vehicles.

MR. MUSK: Oh. Oh, that was — that was incorrect. There was s- — like, there’s some sort of — the media claim that there was, like, $400 million worth of Cybertrucks —

Q: That was it.

MR. MUSK: — being bought by the DOD.

Q: And that he gave it to you.

MR. MUSK: No — well, first of all, that was —

THE PRESIDENT: No, actually, it was —

MR. MUSK: Th- — it was fa- —

THE PRESIDENT: It was Biden.

Q: It was Biden.

THE PRESIDENT: And you know Biden wouldn’t give him much.

MR. MUSK: But — but it wasn’t even — it was fake news, six weeks to Sunday. Tesla is not getting $400 million for Cybertrucks. And the — and the — and this alleged —

Q: That’s what it was, Cybertrucks.

MR. MUSK: This — yeah. This alleged award occurred in December, before the president took office. So, it’s — it’s fake on multiple levels. There i- — Tesla isn’t getting $400 million. And even if it — even if it was, which it isn’t, it was awarded during the Biden administration.

Q: Okay, but you’re — you — you —

MR. MUSK: It’s total fake news.

Q: There — there is —

MR. MUSK: It’s fake on, like — it’s like multiple leverals —

Q: There is some integration —

MR. MUSK: — multiple layers of fake.

Q: So, you’re — you’re tasked now — and I pray to God this is successful. I really do. I wish you Godspeed.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: You know, “Godspeed, John Glenn.”

THE PRESIDENT: It’s — it’s going to be, by the way. I really believe it’s going to be.

Q: But — but there —

MR. MUSK: Oh, yeah.

Q: But there are legitimate areas —

THE PRESIDENT: Because the country is going to do well beside this.

This is cutting. We’re only talking about cutting.

We’re also going to make a lot of money. We’re g- — we’re taking in so much money.

Q: But what about his business? What if — if there is —

THE PRESIDENT: Then we won’t let him do it.

Q: — a contract he would otherwise get?

THE PRESIDENT: We’re not going to let him do it. He — if —

Q: You’re not going to let him do it?

THE PRESIDENT: If he’s got a conflict — I mean, look — he —

Q: Y- — now y- —

THE PRESIDENT: He’s in certain areas — I mean, I see this morning — I didn’t — I didn’t know, but I said, “Do the right thing” — where they’re cutting way back on the electric vehicle subsidies.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: They’re cutting back.

Q: You’re losing —

THE PRESIDENT: Not only cutting back —

Q: It hurts you.

MR. MUSK: Correct.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

Now, I will tell you —

Q: You don’t care?

MR. MUSK: Well —

THE PRESIDENT: He’s probably not that happy with it, but that would have been one thing he would have come to me and said, “Listen, you got to do me a favor. This is crazy.” (Laughter.) But this was in the tax bill. They’re cutting back on the subsidies.

I didn’t — I wasn’t involved in it. I said, “Do what’s right, and you get” — and they’re coming up with the tax, but it’s just preliminary.

But I mean, if he were involved, wouldn’t you think he’d probably do that? Now, maybe he does better if you cut back on the subsidies. Who knows. Because he figures — he does think differently. He thinks he has a better product, and as long as he has a level playing field, he doesn’t care what you do —

MR. MUSK: Exactly.

THE PRESIDENT: — which he’s very — he’s told me that.

MR. MUSK: Yeah. I mean, I haven’t asked the president for anything ever.

THE PRESIDENT: It’s true.

Q: And if it comes up, how — how will you handle it? (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: He won’t be involved.

MR. MUSK: Yeah, I’ll — I’ll re- — I’ll recuse myself if it is a conflict.

THE PRESIDENT: If there’s a conflict, he won’t be involved.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: I mean, I wouldn’t want that, and he won’t want it.

MR. MUSK: Right. And — and also, I’m getting a — sort of a daily proctology exam here. You know, it’s not like I’ll be getting away from something in the dead of night.

Q: Welcome to D.C. If you want a friend, get a dog.

MR. MUSK: Well, I do have a dog, but I also have friends. (Laughter.) My dog loves me, poor little creature.

THE PRESIDENT: You know the truth was —

MR. MUSK: I need to bring him to D.C.

THE PRESIDENT: He’s — I know every businessman. I know the — the good ones, the bad ones, the smart ones, the lucky ones. I know them all. This guy is a ver- — he’s a brilliant guy. He’s a great guy. He’s got tremendous imagination and scientific imagin- — far beyond — you know, you keep talking about a technologist and all, but you’re much more than a technologist. You are that. But he’s also a good person. He’s a very good person, and he wants to see the country do well.

And I know a lot of great businesspeople, really great business people, but, you know, they’re not really, in some cases, very good people. And I know people that would try and take advantage of the situation.

This guy is somebody that really cares for the country, and I saw that very early on. I saw it, really, a long time ago when I got to know him. He’s a very different kind of a character.

That’s why — you know who loves him: young people that are very smart and that love the country. He’s got, like, a tremendous following, because that’s what he’s — he’s a good person.

And he doesn’t need this. He didn’t need this, and he’s doing this to help the country. If I didn’t win this election, this country was — I don’t think it could have made it. I don’t — I mean, we’re allowing criminals — millions of criminals into our country, where everything is transgender, it’s men playing in women’s sports.

I mean, none of this stuff — you could go — I could give you a hundred things. It’s almost like they’re trying to destroy the fabric of — of the country, of the world, because the world was following us. Now the world is following us out of this pit.

We’ve done a lot. I’ll tell you what, in three weeks, we’ve done more — I think we’ve done more — in — in terms of meaningful, not just dollars — than maybe any president ever. And a lot of people are saying that.

Q: Shock — it’s been shock and awe.

THE PRESIDENT: I mean, if we can keep it going at this level, this country is going to be at a level that it’s never seen before.

Q: You know one of the things you did that I really thought was pretty clever and smart and fair, and that was reciprocal tariffs.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, reciprocal.

Q: Ta- — I didn’t know India charged so much. I didn’t know the European Union to charge them.

MR. MUSK: Yeah, totally.

Q: I didn’t know Canada was charging us.

THE PRESIDENT: Everybody. Everybody. Everybody but us.

Q: Brazil, why?

THE PRESIDENT: And I was doing it — you know, I charged China tariffs. I took in hundreds of billions of dollars, and I was doing that. But when we got — we had the greatest economy in history. But then we got hit with COVID, and we had to solve that problem, because I was doing it — and now I said, I want to come back and do the recipri- — because every country in the world almost — we have a deficit with almost every country — not every one, but just about, pretty close.

And — but every country in the world takes advantage of us, and they do it with tariffs. They makes — make it — it’s impossible for him to sell a car, practically, in, as an example, India. I don’t know if that’s true or not, but I think —

MR. MUSK: The tariffs are like 100 percent import duty.

THE PRESIDENT: The tariffs are so high —

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

THE PRESIDENT: — they don’t want to — now, if he built the factory in India, that’s okay, but that’s unfair to us. It’s very unfair.

And I said, “You know what we do?” I told Prime Minister Modi yesterday — he was here. I said, “Here’s what you do. We’re going to do — be very fair with you.” They charge the highest tariffs in the world, just about.

Q: 36 percent?

THE PRESIDENT: Oh, much — much higher.

MR. MUSK: It’s 100 percent on — auto imports are 100 percent.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, that’s peanuts. So, much higher. And — and others too. I said, “Here’s what we’re going to do: reciprocal. Whatever you charge, I’m charging.” He goes, “No, no, I don’t like that.” “No, no, whatever you charge, I’m going to charge.” I’m doing that with every country.

MR. MUSK: It seems fair.

Q: Don’t you —

THE PRESIDENT: (Laughs.) It does.

MR. MUSK: It’s — it’s like fair is fair.

THE PRESIDENT: Nobody can argue with me. You know, the media can’t argue — I said — they said, “Tariffs — you’re going to charge tariffs?” You know, if I said, like, 25 percent they’d say, “Oh, that’s terrible.” I don’t say that anymore —

Q: Can I — (inaudible) —

THE PRESIDENT: — because I say, “Whatever they charge, we’ll charge.” And you know what?

Q: They stop.

THE PRESIDENT: They — then they say, “Oh, that sounds fair.”

MR. MUSK: All the president is saying is that —

Q: (Inaudible.)

MR. MUSK: — it needs to be at a level playing field and — and fair and square.

Q: Yeah. And how does — how —

THE PRESIDENT: And we’re going to make a lot of money and a lot of businesses are going to come pouring in.

MR. MUSK: How can you argue with a fair and square situation?

Q: Don’t — don’t you think most of them will look at the — the — for example, without America, China’s economy will tank. They need our business.

THE PRESIDENT: They do. Everybody needs us.

Q: Everybody needs it.

THE PRESIDENT: And you know what?

Q: Do- — don’t you think they’ll stop?

THE PRESIDENT: We only have so long left where we’re in this position. We’re the bank, and the bank is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. We — we’re the bank. We got to do this now. We can’t wait another 10 years and have a shell of a country left, because that’s what was going to happen.

Q: Mr. President —

THE PRESIDENT: This country — if I didn’t win this election and have people like this man right here that really do care, because that’s the other word — if you don’t care, you could be the smartest guy in the world, it’s not going to matter. But if we didn’t win this election, I’m telling you, we would not have had a country for very long.

Q: How quickly —

MR. MUSK: May I say —

Q: — do you balance the budget and — and when do we start paying down that debt?

THE PRESIDENT: Well, potentially, very quickly, between what he’s doing and with income coming in from tariffs and other things. I mean, I hope we can — I don’t want to give a date, because then these people are going to say, “Oh, well, he didn’t make the date.” But I think we can do it very quickly.

We would have never done it if this didn’t happen. Never. It would have never been — it would only get worse and worse, and ultimately, it would have exploded.

This country was headed down a very bad track. And the whole DEI thing, that was — that was a trap. That was a sick trap.

Q: (Inaudible.)

MR. MUSK: (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: And, you know, we’ve destroyed that. That’s gone. That’s pretty much gone.

Q: I agree.

MR. MUSK: (Inaudible) —

Q: We’re not — we’re not funding it.

MR. MUSK: If — I really want to — I really want to emphasize to people that — this is a very important point — if we don’t solve the deficit, there won’t be money for medical care. There won’t be money —

THE PRESIDENT: Right.

MR. MUSK: — for Social Security. We either solve the deficit or all we’ll be doing is paying debt.

Q: Nobody —

MR. MUSK: It’s — it’s got to be solved, or there’s no medical care, there’s no Social Security, there’s no nothing. That’s got to be solved. It’s not optional. America will go bankrupt if this is not done. That’s why I’m here.

Q: The president’s —

THE PRESIDENT: Europe takes advantage of us.

MR. MUSK: And — and I’d like to also just send a message — like, because, as the president said, like, this — there’s a lot of rich people out there. They should be caring more about the country because — the reason they should be caring about — more about country is: America falls, what do you think is going to happen to your business? What do — what do you think — do you think you’re be going to be okay if — if the ship of America sinks? Of course not. Like, what — what I’m doing here, what the president is doing is it’s just long-term thinking. The ship of America must be strong. The ship of America cannot sink. If it sinks, we all sink with it.

THE PRESIDENT: Sean, you’re a —

Q: This is what — this is what drives you?

MR. MUSK: Yes.

Q: This is important. It says “tech support.” So, you’re not trying to be president, as the media suggests. You are really here because your heart and your passion is this. And the president described you as being — this is the biggest thing you ever done. Now you trying to bring sight to —

THE PRESIDENT: There could be nothing bigger. There’s nothing —

Q: You’re sending ships up to Mars — you know, spaceships up in the sky all the time —

THE PRESIDENT: That’s peanuts.

Q: — and saving astronauts. That’s pretty big.

THE PRESIDENT: That’s peanuts compared to what we’re talking about.

Q: It’s peanuts?

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

Q: Do you agree with that?

MR. MUSK: Well, it’s esse- — it’s essential that America be healthy, that America’s economy be strong. And — and if that — if — basically, like, my concern is like, if — if — America is the central pillar holding up Western civilization. That pillar must be strong. If that pillar falls, the whole roof comes crashing down.

THE PRESIDENT: Including his ships.

MR. MUSK: There’s no place to hide.

THE PRESIDENT: Including his ships going up.

MR. MUSK: There’s no place to run.

THE PRESIDENT: Nothing. There’s nothing left.

Q: Why — why, if this is your goal, your motivation, you’re losing money in the process, you’re offeri- — you do all these nice things for people for free; you’re trying to solve, you know, blindness; you’re going to rescue astronauts; you help the people in North Carolina, California; you’re cutting money that was sent abroad that’s not helping the American people, then why the rage —

MR. MUSK: Actually, I think it was like —

Q: But why this rage?

MR. MUSK: — it was not helping the American people and hurting people overseas, to be clear.

Q: Why this rage against you now? First, they hated him. Now they hate both of you.

MR. MUSK: Well, I think we’re seeing an antibody reaction from — from those who are receiving the — the wasteful and fraudulent money.

Q: They’re being exposed.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

Q: Nobody wants to be exposed when you’re corrupt.

MR. MUSK: I’ll — I’ll tell you a lesson I learned at PayPal. You know who complained the loudest — the quickest and the loudest and with the most amount of righteous indignation? The fraudsters. That’s who complained first, loudest, and — and they would generally have this immense overreaction. That’s how we knew there were the fraudsters. That’s how we knew. There’s a tell.

Q: What di- — I’ve never — I’ve never met you before today.

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: And it’s nice to meet you, by the way. Thank — thank you for doing this. You guys are really friends. I could s- — you guys — I could see you kicking up your shoes.

THE PRESIDENT: Well, he doesn’t do this kind of thing. And the way I figured that you’d get to know him is if I did it with him. I said, “Come on, let’s do it together.” He doesn’t do this. I think he’s smarter not doing it, overall. Because, you know, I mean, he’s done very well without doing it. But he doesn’t feel it’s really worthwhile. He wants the product to speak for itself, or whatever he does speak for itself. But he views it as — you know, does it matter? And I’m doing this with you today because I wanted to have people understand him. And I think it’s very important — I disagree with him. I think it’s very important that they do understand him. He doesn’t need this. He doesn’t need it. Now, I happen to think it’s made him very popular. I think it — he’s more popular now because there are so many people — you know, you’re talking about the radical left — they have the lowest ratings. MSNBC is dying. CNN is dying. They’re all dying. The New York Times is doing lousy. The Washington Post is doing horribly. They’re all doing badly because people don’t buy it anymore. But I think it was important that he do this one interview. You’ve been a very fair guy. I think you were the right guy to do it. If we could get some radical left guy — and he’d do just as well, frankly, because it’s all about common sense.

Q: They would attack him —

THE PRESIDENT: But this — Sean —

Q: — as being unconstitutional, not — a fascist.

THE PRESIDENT: — to me this was a — it was important for people to understand, he’s doing a big job. He’s doing a very thankless job. He’s doing a thankless job, but he’s helping us to save our country. Our country was in serious trouble, and I had to get the best guy, somebody with credibility, because if he were just a regular, good — very good, solid businessman, he wouldn’t have the credibility. He’s got the best credibility for this. And people also know he’s an honest guy. He’s an honest guy. He’s just a very, very smart guy who’s done amazing things. And this will be the biggest thing he’s ever done, because, you know, his companies are all great. But if this country goes bad — I guess where he is a little selfish is this. He knows one thing and probably doesn’t think — but if his — if this country goes bad, his stuff is not going to be worth very much, I can tell you.

MR. MUSK: Well, I’d say, if the — if the ship of America sinks, we’re all go- — going down with it. You know, this idea that people can escape to New Zealand or some other place is false. If the central pillar of Western civilization that is America falls, the whole roof comes crashing down and there is no escape.

Q: It’s amazing, since you’ve been elected, to watch Canada, Mexico, Venezuela, Colombia — I — I was shocked at the statements that Vladimir Putin made about you. I — I was shocked at the hostage release. I was shocked that Venezuela had done it — had done it. Zelenskyy wants a deal. Putin wants a deal.

THE PRESIDENT: All good statements.

Q: King Abdullah was interested.

THE PRESIDENT: You mean by that all good statements. Look, they respect the president of this country. They respect — they did not respect the last president. They laughed at him, and they laughed at our country, and he’s done great damage to our country.

Q: Have foreign leaders told you what they thought of Biden?

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, they have, but I’d rather not say. They — they have. It’s not — it — look —

Q: It’s the obvious.

THE PRESIDENT: He was not George Washington, let’s put it that way.

MR. MUSK: (Inaudible.)

THE PRESIDENT: Not the greatest.

Q: Sorry, if that’s (inaudible).

THE PRESIDENT: He’s done a tremendous disservice.

Q: Will you be here —

THE PRESIDENT: And, by the way, the Democrats have done a great disservice, and they ought to get their act together and use a little judgment, and they ought to work with us on straightening out this mess that —

Q: Who? John Fetterman?

THE PRESIDENT: — a lot of people have —

Q: Maybe? Who — what Democrat is not radicalized?

THE PRESIDENT: Actually, you mention John.

Q: John Fetterman.

THE PRESIDENT: He’s become the best voice in the Democrat party. You know, I had lunch with him, and I thought he was terrific, but he’s a much different man than he was before he had this difficulty. He used to be radical left, and I think he became much smarter, actually. He’s really — he’s really a voice of reason. But the Democrats have to get together. They have to get their act together, because the stuff they — they talk about makes no sense. It makes — none whatsoever. And they must know it. They must know.

MR. MUSK: Yeah. I mean, like, the country has spoken very clearly and rejected the core tenets of the Demo- — Democratic Party. The country voted t- — fo- — I mean, the country made the — America has made its vote clear. The president won the popular vote decisively. The Republicans won the House. Repub- — Republicans won the Senate. What more do you need? The Democratic Party needs to take a hard look in the mirror and — and change their ways.

Q: I think they went from shock, denial, into the depression stage of grief, and now they’re in the rage stage, where I anticipate they’ll stay for four years, and if they get the chance, they’ll want to impeach him 10 times. Do you anticipate you’ll be here in four years? My last question.

MR. MUSK: I’ll — I’ll be as helpful as long as I can be helpful.

THE PRESIDENT: That’s a good question. I mean, I was thinking about that just now. I said, “I wonder how long he’s going to be doing it.” You can’t get somebody like this. He cares, and he’s brilliant, and he’s got energy. You need energy, also, in addition to those other things. You know, I have a lot of guys that are very smart, but they have no energy. They want to sleep all day long. You need a lot of energy. He’s got a lot of energy. He’s doing a great job. If there’s any conflict, he — he will stop it. But if he didn’t, I’d stop it. I’d see if there’s a conflict. I mean, we’re talking about big stuff. But he’s under a pretty big microscope.

MR. MUSK: Yeah, seriously.

THE PRESIDENT: I mean, everybody is watching him. If there’s a conflict, you’re going to be reading about it within about two minutes after the conflict.

MR. MUSK: Exactly. There — there’s — the possibility of me getting away with something is 0 percent — 0.0. I — I’m scrutinized to a ridiculous degree. And — and the other thing is that we — you know, what — what’s — you know what’s better than saying “trust — trust me” is just full transparency. So, what we’re doing with — with the DOGE — DOGE dot — just go to DOGE.gov. You can see every single action that’s being taken. And now –and I want to be clear, we are going to make some mistakes. We’re not going to be perfect. Nobody bats a thousand. But we’re going to fix the mistakes very quickly. That’s what matters: not that you don’t make mistakes, but that you fix the mistakes very fast.

THE PRESIDENT: And you’re going to ask the other side, when they talk about, “This is a constitutional crisis,” you got to a- — what are they paying for? Where are those tax — because when you read off the list of things, it’s a big con job. See, when they talk Constitution —

MR. MUSK: Totally.

THE PRESIDENT: — it’s a total con job.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

THE PRESIDENT: They never talk — and I watch some of the shows —

MR. MUSK: It’s specifics — they avoid specifics.

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah, when you start talking about how did — how come they spent money on transgender here and transgender there —

MR. MUSK: Yeah, totally.

THE PRESIDENT: — and all the stuff in some country that nobody ever heard of, they don’t want to talk about it. They just talk about, “This is a constitutional crisis.”

Q: It shocks the conscious.

THE PRESIDENT: The money is being squandered purposely — tremendous theft, tremendous kickbacks, everything — and we’re straightening it out. And thank goodness. I look up, and I say, “Thank you,” because I think if it went on for four more years, it would not be salvageable. You wouldn’t be able —

MR. MUSK: Absolutely.

THE PRESIDENT: You wouldn’t be able to save it.

Q: You believe, too, that when you were in Butler, came within a millimeter being assassinated —

THE PRESIDENT: Yeah.

Q: The day you endorsed him, that was that day.

MR. MUSK: Yes.

Q: But you had been planning on it?

MR. MUSK: Yeah.

Q: Pretty — I think everybody will never forget that iconic blood on your face. “Fight, fight, fight.” I actually was afra- — watching it and thought you might drop again. You know, I didn’t know if it had hit you. You can sometimes get up and then the blood starts to accumulate. It was scary — pretty scary.

MR. MUSK: Well, I mean, th- — this is how you know someone’s true character, because everyone can say they’re brave, but the president was actually shot. Okay? Courage under fire. “Fight, fight, fight,” blood streaming down the face. That’s true courage. You can’t fake that.

Q: Yeah. Thank you both.

Mr. President, thank you, sir.

THE PRESIDENT: Thank you very much.

Q: Appreciate it. Elon, thank you for your time. Really nice to meet you.

END: : : : : 1:01 P.M. EST